First, thanks for the great comments on my blogs, especially the personal brand blog. I am absolutely delighted when we engage, mano-a-mano, so to speak, and grapple with these issues. Keep it going.
Now, on to me thought for today. Actually, it started on Friday when the chairs of all the academic departments of the university got together for a meting with President Cole. One of here themes was persistence to graduate--meaning the graduation rate--of undergraduates. An amazing statistic, only 66% of entering freshmen graduate after 6 years! That's about the national average. (Sorry, no graduate statistics available, but I imagine they are quite higher.) After six years in college, almost no one graduates.
Today I read in the NY Times that the value of undergraduate education in terms of median salary per year is about $20k MORE for college graduates than high school graduates--$47k for college grads vs. $27k for high school only grads. Do the math and $20k more per year over a 30+ ear career and it runs into a few bucks--perhaps enough for early retirement, a house at the beach, or whatever other indulgence you like. Even including the cost of college, it's a really good deal!
So, I'm wondering why 1) students wouldn't try to get out sooner to get the extra salary and, more critically, 2) what it might be that derails 34% of the students from ever getting a degree. I'm also wondering what I can do to help students be more persistent to a degree. In my classes I've tried being kind, being mean; being demanding, being laisse-faire; having stretch goals, having almost no class hurdles. Still, I can't say any one thing has worked over another. I still have 2-3 students who fail my class every semester. I'm not proud of that. In fact, it pisses me off (okay, I'm a little less professional here) when the truth is that if you try--hand in anything--you'll get some credit. I've found that these students who failed generally did not do the work; it was not because they did the work badly.
So, I ask again, what can I do to help my students graduate in 4 or even 6 years?
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In my opinion there could be couple of factors involved in students taking longer time to graduate (6 years rather than usual 4 years)
ReplyDeleteFirst and foremost is the cost of college. Most of the students are taking up almost full time job and going to college. This obviously reduces the number of credits taken during the semester.
Secondly, Parents need to motivate their children and continuously help them to make good decisions in the early years of college. Lot of times students are not making right decisions from the starting regarding their career choices. Changing from one major to another could cost them longer times in graduating.
Regarding students failing a class: I feel like some students are not aware of the value of time and money that their parents have put into them. They take things for granted. I definitely don't think that there would be any issues with the professors.
I guess a big help would be providing more students more scholarships/grants (I know Dr P. has already taken this step) which would allow students with motivation to complete their college on time. Also there should be some initiative from college to inform students on various scholarship from within the college and outside the college. Lot of times i have seen students are not aware of these (especially scholarships/grants outside of college). And also at time students are lazy to do a lot of research.
With regards to helping students not fail a class: This is a tuff one i guess... May be give them early warning, let them know their standing in the class and let them know what is the minimum requirements (paper, HW) to pass the course from that point onwards.
It is not what you can do being the issue, it is what they can do. I have learned in life, you cannot make anyone do anything they do not want to do themselves. Whether its cleaning up your room or writing a paper. When one is set in their ways, it is excruciatingly difficult to push them into doing things their hearts aren't set on doing. Best thing one can do is "motivate".
ReplyDeleteI had a professor for undergraduate and I actually took him twice because he was so spectacular. His name was Dr. Robert Gilbert. The first class I had with him was the first class I had at Montclair State University and it was a Monday morning class that began at 8:00 a.m. The class was Freshman Seminar. I did not miss that class once, even on my sickest day, I managed to make it. Basically what was spoken of in class was life lessons, one story at a time. He had developed a "success hotline" which is a phone number you can call on a daily basis and each day his message was updated. Whether it was a new story, a new acronym, or just a motivational message for the day; it truly was uplifting. He also has a blog online that he updates regularly if not daily. I have attached it below:
http://gilbertsuccesshotline.blogspot.com/
In Dr. Gilbert's class, one of his many acronyms that is so true is the following: a ten - two worded phrase -
"If Is Is To Be It Is Up To Me"
If you keep saying those words over and over again it will make sense - if you want something bad enough only you have the ability and means to make it happen. Yes it might take help from others to accomplish whatever it is you are pursuing to achieve, but without the drive and determination of yourself, it is destined not to happen.
In closing, motivation and positive feedback have always been determining factors on my output whether it is in school or in the business world. It is very encouraging to feel that what I am doing is resourceful and valuable to myself and the task I am completing. Again, it is difficult to make someone do something they don’t have their mind set on, but encouragement and optimism is a good step in the right direction.
Ashley Crimmins
I would have to agree that switching majors halfway through college must be a leading factor for students not graduating on time. It is difficult for an 18-year-old entering a 4-year college to have comprehensive knowledge of the economy and recognize where he/she fits in best. Especially with the turmoil of the economy over the past few years: many students will begin their college programs understanding that their chosen field is booming at the moment, only to graduate during a recession and realize their field is laying-off heavily and contracting sharply.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I am a proponent of 2-year degrees. I believe it is more cost-efficient and allows college students to further develop their professional expectations when they enroll in local community colleges to obtain 2-year liberal arts associate's degrees before they move on to their bachelor's degree. After focusing on liberal arts classes for two years, students may enter a traditional 4-year college and spend two years taking all the classes related to your major that satisfy your degree requirements, i.e. take care of all your general writing/lit/history/math courses at a community college, decide what major you want (teaching, for example) apply to schools that excel in that program (MSU for teaching) and spend the next two years at that college taking all the courses required in that department to obtain your degree. After a bachelor's degree, you could spend two years getting your MBA (or any degree related to your field) and now you have 3 degrees in 6 years instead of struggling to get 1.
If you take Dhiraj's advice and scour all your scholarship options then hopefully your student debt won't be a mountain to scale (more like a hill).
Then there is the matter of students failing because they don't want to hand anything in ... I really don't know what to do with these people. Yes, maybe giving them quarterly or mid-term reports on their grades may help. You could try to schedule brief one-on-one meetings with failing students to help motivate them and find out why they're slacking so much. Explain to them what opportunity cost means and how much salary they are forfeiting when they extend their college career by retaking failed courses. Well, it's just a thought.
Wow...the statistic of those who do not graduate after six years is much higher than I ever would have guessed. I know I pushed myself to the max to graduate in 4 years, so I cannot imagine spending all that time and money on schooling to have little to nothing to show for it. I agree with Christopher when he said that switching majors could add more semesters on to the traditional four year term. Maybe also the fact that some of these students began seeking their undergrad at a older age; maybe their work demands, family obligations, or financial standing that made them have to give up college.
ReplyDeleteIt seems that in many cases, people are taking for granted the oppurtunity put in front of them. If their parents are fronting the bill for them, they may not be as motivated to graduate because their is not much at stake. I knew every semester that I prolonged my graduation would only mean several thousand more dollars tacked onto my student loans.
As for what you could do to help students graduate, unfortunately I think this is out of your hands. Even from just seeing your teaching practices so far, I can tell that you would never fail someone that was putting forth a valid effort. For anyone that is in college, they should have the discipline and drive to want to earn this degree to better themselves.
I don't know Dr. P. I don't think there is really a whole lot that you can do yourself. It would have to be a collective effort amongst the student, you and many other professors to help push students along. Ultimately it is the decision of the students that will allow them to graduate within the 4-6 year period.
ReplyDeleteOne of the big concerns is money. College is ENTIRELY TOO EXPENSIVE! This 15 credit semester alone cost me $850 for books! My commuter parking pass was $200! That means that I am now over $1000 in the hole and I haven't even stepped foot in class yet! I do understand Monctclair was rated as one of the best valued colleges in not only NJ, but the US as well, however that doesn't change the fact that college is entirely too overpriced.
Another problem I see is the lack of maturity at a young age today. Many kids do not mature at 18 like they used to. It is expected for many kids to spend at least another 4 years in college and therefore many of them under the supervision of their parents for another 4 years. It is not until many kids are 22 that they even begin showing signs of maturity levels that many kids did years ago at age 18. This means that kids mature later and therefore begin their lives later and are often left with too many options.
In my opinion I think that there are a couple of factors that contributes to "drop outs" and taking so long to graduate.
ReplyDeleteI think it my be a money problem, where parents can't afford to send their kids to work. Even though, as stated, people could get student loans, federal loans , but for some it seems that it might take a long time to paid it off, therefore dropping it or not even started my be a temporary solution.
Also, there is the college atmosphere, where partying hard might be one's priority.
And there are the maturity level. Some people mature early and others don't.
Sometimes when you are in school, you don't relate to the "outside working place", therefore making it hard to "translate" school with work.
Overall I think that if you have a goal in life, no matter how hard it is to get there, you will always find a way to get where and what you want. No excuses.
To be quite frank, this statistic does not seem to shock me. More so than ever I do trust that students are dragging their feet in graduating. While I do hold to the concept that perhaps now the reason, moreso than laziness, might be the lagging economy and in turn not exactly what we would call a booming job market.
ReplyDeleteAs some of my colleagues have noted, maturity is certainly a factor when it comes to buckling down, doing the work, and going that extra mile. Also, as previously noted above, one of the major contributors to students not graduating on time would be switching majors. I alone know over a dozen people who graduated at least a semester late due to switching their majors during sophomore year or beyond.
Also, I do think that students, whom have not even switched their degree, do not have clear career goals for once they graduate. I know from personal experience, that throughout my entire undergraduate career, and now into my graduate career, I have had a solid and clear thought out plan of what I want to accomplish. This helps immensely when it comes to motivation and the like.
I do not know if there is any single thing one professor can do Dr. P. I think perhaps this is a problem with which the university as a whole should address. Perhaps the University could offer incentives in the way of discounted books or parking passes for students who remain on course to graduate in the scheduled four years. Do not beat yourself up to much Dr. P., it is certainly not one professors fault, it is the students fault.
I personally don't thing there is anything a teacher can do other than sit down with students and bestow upon them your personal advise and suggestions. However, information and advice is only useful when it is used. Students that fail lack motivation and should not be enrolled in classes since they are clearly unwilling to do the work. If a student is in bad academic standing they should not be allowed to take as many classes since their grades reflect their lack of ability to stay on top of their work. Decreasing their workload will provide them with more than adequate time to get things done and if they further proceed to get behind it is a personal problem that they themselves need to either overcome or figure out an alternative route for their lives being that career is such a significant part of one's life.
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